ITT: Darkling is picky and sexist about video games

[Jo']

sounds like Kojima is a bit of a Hollywood fanboy. Apparently he's been wanting to cast Hollywood actors in MGS games for a while.

Not unlikely. He is sooo "cinematic". This kind of cut scenes that waste time of my life showing for over half a minute e.g. close up of boots walking slowly, while you hear some noise coming closer, like someone crying or slithering - the tension is killing me. And every video in TPP needs a button, a choice and a button - two movements too much.

But I've read so many horror stories about developers trying to create their own engine and then encountering all sorts of problems in the process (eventually spending a huge chunk of their development time trying just to get the engine to work, let alone produce quality optimised content for it).

Jupp, that's what happened to me/us in 2006, big shame or we'd have brought dating sim style games to Germany and I'd be a famous story designer now

the way you played the game via various quicktime events, jerking the sticks and pressing various buttons. I didn't like the sound of that, so I never played it.

Yes, I just recalled the protagonist in a gloomy scene sitting on his bed playing guitar - iirc for his love interest. And when he played good they'd have sex - was it like that? *laugh*

The games had reasonable stories, but didn't really stand out to me as anything as special or significant as Cage obviously wanted them to be.

I guess I am still thankfull that he tries making games a little different - even if we are hard to please

but you can't play missions as him because he gets assigned to a different squad, or something. I didn't know that you can't fire him, though. I wonder if his stats are randomised at the start of the mission, or if he always has sucky stats?

Oh, I never tried. You can only play soldiers from the - dunno the name - "battle division"? So I'd have just move him from "Information" to "Battle" and then I can play him. Some staff can't be laid off. Kojima is S-ranked though, but offline we can have a total of 700 men and meanwhile he's the lowest s-ranked info guy on my mother base.

and the enemies I knocked out would get woken up by their friends. Boo!

This is when the dark side temps me and I just kill them, for my ease of progress. It's like 50 exp vs. 100 exp or something. While you get some 100 exp alone for crawling through some air duct and in the end it looks like you can play the game without any upgrades anyway. Personally I would consider that a game design error, but one could sell it as a difficulty option.

in DXMD the pistols can't take AP ammo - only regular or EMP. So I also carry a silenced combat rifle, which can use regular or AP ammo, for taking out turrets and robots.

In DX3 I eventually dropped the rifle since it doesn't cause decent damage. Basically the stun gun and the pistol were my choice. Stun gun was always one-shot-success while if the pistol didn't hit critically it would raise an alarm.

The 2013 Tomb Raider game is on special at the Playstation store at the moment (nine AUD!), so I figured I would give it a go. the PS4 version is nicer-looking and has a more attractive face for Lara. So I get to enjoy an actually attractive female protagonist in a game. Unthinkable!

The one with Laura camping in some snowy mountains? And you're such a "sexist", Oni-chan


Last night I watched a bit of "Altered Carbon" it started off decently but after the 5th Ep the "Bullshit-Factor" (I call it, when the plot twists screw with the viewer) rose quickly. In the end it seems to be about a Japanese younger sister, who gets all psycho for her older brother...

[Darkling]

Not unlikely. He is sooo "cinematic". This kind of cut scenes that waste time of my life showing for over half a minute e.g. close up of boots walking slowly, while you hear some noise coming closer, like someone crying or slithering - the tension is killing me.

Yeah, I remember reading about the excessively long cutscenes in previous MGS games. I've even read comments about the 'cinematic' style of the cutscenes in TPP - ie often they're just one long continuous shot like you get in pretentious Hollywood movies. Not really that impressive when it's done with computer graphics and not with real actors, though.

Yes, I just recalled the protagonist in a gloomy scene sitting on his bed playing guitar - iirc for his love interest. And when he played good they'd have sex - was it like that? *laugh*

Pretty much, actually. There are scenes in Beyond Two Souls where the main character plays the guitar and you have to push buttons or move the sticks to get her to keep playing.

Or a scene where her coworker calls her up to say he's coming to visit, and you have to clean her apartment, get her to take a shower (no graphic nudity, unfortunately), pick what dress to wear and what to cook for dinner. It was fun, too. So yes, it's nice that there are still some game developers out there willing to try something a bit different with their games (at times).

In Heavy Rain, you alternate between four protagonists. One of them is a female reporter. She goes to a nightclub in an attempt to get information from the owner and ends up having to make herself look more 'slutty' in order to get his men's attention, then doing a striptease for him in his office. She can end up stripping down to nothing but her panties if you don't think of a way to incapacitate him.

Western audiences are so hypocritical about sexual content versus violence. One of the 'immersive sim' games I was looking into was The Witcher 3, which is made by a Polish game developer. There are scenes where the protagonist has sex with various women, and I was reading comments like "I don't want my son playing games with content like this! You should cut these scenes out, censor them or make them skippable!". Whereas, in the same game, the protagonist is killing people very gorily with blood spattering everywhere. Ugh. Heaven forbid our children see naked breasts, but decapitations and headshots are fine!

Oh, I never tried. You can only play soldiers from the - dunno the name - "battle division"? So I'd have just move him from "Information" to "Battle" and then I can play him. Some staff can't be laid off.

I looked deeper into it, and while PC players have created mods to let you play as him, he's locked out of combat duty in the console versions. Initially he starts in the 'intel team' or some such, but there's a lock icon indicating you can't use him as a soldier.

This is when the dark side temps me and I just kill them, for my ease of progress. It's like 50 exp vs. 100 exp or something.

Yeah, sometimes I'm tempted to abandon my pacifist ways and just shoot everyone in the head, especially because the stun gun has such a short range. There's a tranquilliser rifle that shoots darts at a much longer range, but it takes a lot longer to knock the enemy out, especially if you don't get a headshot. Stun guns knock the bad guys out immediately - after a couple seconds of writhing.

While you get some 100 exp alone for crawling through some air duct and in the end it looks like you can play the game without any upgrades anyway.

There's a completist in me that doesn't want to pass up the XP gained from incapacitating all of those soldiers, though. If I sneak past them entirely, that means I don't get the sweet, sweet XP for having dealt with them.

Personally I would consider that a game design error, but one could sell it as a difficulty option.

That's basically what sums up the 'immersive sim' genre. You can play it however you choose. In DX, you can go in all guns blazing. You can use stealth and non-lethal means. You can find a vent and sneak past enemy encounters completely. You can hack into a security terminal and set the guard turrets to friendly fire. Basically, it's an open environment that presents you with several ways to proceed, rather than other games with a more linear design.

The one with Laura camping in some snowy mountains? And you're such a "sexist", Oni-chan

No, that's the second one. I was tempted to start with that one, but by all accounts the first game has a more interesting story, even if some aspects of the gameplay are a bit less developed than the sequel (understandably, I guess). Plus the first game is a lot cheaper, so it doesn't matter as much if I end up not liking the gameplay. And if I do like the gameplay, I can always then move on to the sequel.

It's true that part of me doesn't want to play Horizon Zero Dawn because the protagonist isn't attractive. But it's also because the gameplay seems very frenetic - constantly jumping and rolling around while trying to hit specific parts of the robot dinosaurs' bodies with your bow. It doesn't really look or feel like the kind of game that I'd enjoy.

In the end it seems to be about a Japanese younger sister, who gets all psycho for her older brother...

Japanese? Younger sister? Psycho for her brother?

*googles*

Oh wait, she's really ugly. Never mind. (Me, sexist? Never!)

[Jo']

Hm, right. I just tried and indeed I can't choose Kojima as a mission soldier. Lame! I'd so blow "myself" up with C4 just to make a point

It's funny how one thing a lot of people worship - like how "cinematic" Kojima shall be - personally annoys me.


Cute about the dressing. In our game that I took part in as a designer I tried to get a feature in there that would have the character comment on how he or she is dressed by the player. And even could tell if the clothes are in her character's style or to revealing if it's a shy character. Sadly this kind of thing proved to be rather tricky with our generic dressing room.


Oh, don't even get me started about this sexual is BAD vs. violence is ALL RIGHT mentality. As you, I could never understand nor justify that.

I started playing Witcher 2 and there is pretty early a bed scene with his love interest. I found the fighting a bit "ineffective" so I stopped not very far into the game a while ago. Maybe I should pick it up again since Oblivion 4 battle is even more awkward.


On PC TPP has even a "shut the music up" mod. Lucky bastards!

Do stunned or tranquillized enemies wake up on their own in DX4. They don't in DX3, but they do in MGS games depending on how you knocked them out. I found it always a little creepy in DX3 that knocked out enemies would lay around in the game like for days *laugh*


When I realise that some part of the game play has no use I usually skip it. Like not reading those books, that shall immerse you in the world of a game. Often enough since they have no relation at all to the game and its plot I find it utterly pointless to read in-game novels or pseudo history. Wasted chance. They should hide quests and hints in there and not some random writing.

What org. XBOX game was it? "Second Sight"? There was a little memorable moment. The player needs to escape some prison and you get into a control room. In there I killed some guard and then looked at the computer to see that he had been chatting with his girlfriend and she keeps pinging on the screen: "Where are you?", "What happened?" That was emotional, because you could read that they were going on a date tonight and suddenly I was like. "Oops, sorry I just killed you boyfriend" *cries*

They parodied that in "Saints Row 4" where you have a loyalty mission with Asha and it's all sneaking MGS style even with a cardboard box. And all the guards chat about how it's their last appointment or how they are going on dates or how they hate all the violence and you then sneak up and stab them brutally with a knife.


Tzk... she is not thaaat ugly. Granted she is not you Kana Imouto type, because she's more a killing ninja, but you gotta see her 100% in the nude! Admittedly when she started to talk all psycho she got ugly and I wanted to kill her.

[Darkling]

Hm, right. I just tried and indeed I can't choose Kojima as a mission soldier. Lame! I'd so blow "myself" up with C4 just to make a point

Apparently you won't get to dress him up in a chicken hat either, which I've read is a thing.

It's funny how one thing a lot of people worship - like how "cinematic" Kojima shall be - personally annoys me.

I know, right? Fans seem to fixate on the oddest things, and sometimes I just evaluate the thing they're lauding and it's like "um, what exactly do you see in this?". I think it's called 'drinking the Kool-Aid'. I don't subscribe to that sort of mentality. I like to evaluate things by my own standards; I'm an independent thinker.

I started playing Witcher 2 and there is pretty early a bed scene with his love interest. I found the fighting a bit "ineffective" so I stopped not very far into the game a while ago. Maybe I should pick it up again since Oblivion 4 battle is even more awkward.

I haven't played any of the Witcher games; I just ran across it while researching immersive sims. To me, it sounds like the God of War series - generic action games with some sex and nudity added to titillate the players. Honestly, I was more turned on when Aerie offered to sleep with me in Baldur's Gate 2 (an encounter that was portrayed solely with text and voice work) than any of the 'erotic' scenes I saw from The Witcher 3.

Do stunned or tranquillized enemies wake up on their own in DX4. They don't in DX3, but they do in MGS games depending on how you knocked them out.

Ah, okay, that makes sense then why the players in TPP would carry unconscious enemies so far away - in case they woke up by themselves.

In DXMD, the enemies you knock out don't wake up unless an ally comes across them and revives them. You leave Prague a couple of times on side missions, and things reset, but the rest of the time it's assumed you're performing all your actions in the space of a few hours. When the game starts, you're in Prague during the day. Then, when you return, it's evening. Then, when you return again, it's still evening but martial law has been imposed.

However, you can take as long as you like in each return to Prague, so it becomes a bit weird (as you said) to return to someone you knocked out hours ago (in gameplay time) and find them still unconscious. Just a limitation of the gameplay, I guess - and the developers not wanting to make things too complicated for the player.

In DXMD you get a reasonable XP reward for reading the eBooks, so I generally click on them, even if I don't always bother reading the actual text. However, some of the time the eBooks were helpful to me (since I haven't played Human Revolution), because they gave me a better idea of the game's backstory.

The pocket secretaries tend to be more useful in terms of revealing passwords or codes for various computers and keypads. I agree that the eBooks are entirely optional if you don't want the bonus XP.

I've never heard of Second Sight. Looking at the Wikipedia entry, it sounds a lot like Deus Ex - firearms, special powers, stealth, alarms, etc.

I used to play a mobile game called Avengers Academy (based on the Marvel Avengers), and I laughed out loud when one of Black Widow's 'stealth' actions was hiding herself in a cardboard box and sneaking around the campus, occasionally peeking out from the top of the box.

Tzk... she is not thaaat ugly. Granted she is not you Kana Imouto type, because she's more a killing ninja, but you gotta see her 100% in the nude!

*Googles pictures of Dichen Lachman nude in Altered Carbon*

AGGGHHH! My eyes! My EYES! The goggles do nothing!!

[Jo']

Chicken hat is an offering in case you are repeatedly discovered in the same mission, leading you to fail. It's not an item the player has as such.


Apropos lauding. The "Light Novel"(LN) "Overlord" comes to mind. I watched the anime (1st season that is) and I liked it. Second season suddenly got all boring and dragged out, not focussing on the MC at all. In the discussion on Kissanime those who complained about that where told, it's like in the LN and's it's totally cool because background and story and development...

I read all LN till the latest released volume 12 and the writing is partly pretty bad. (Wow) Maybe it comes across that way, because it's fan translated? But that can not explain the actual lack of development of mostly anything. When I read a book I don't expect anime-style cliché, but maybe that's how it is in Japan. The writer goes off about random side characters for chapters only to have them eventually all killed by the MC on a single page. And I am like "YES! I skipped those chapters and saved life time!" It's like he's compulsed to introduce new characters and MORE new characters only to drop them - either for several books or until now entirely.


I think when I hid soldiers in trash cans or toilets they do not wake up. If you punch a guy, he'll wake up in about a minute. If you "tranq" them they'll sleep for like 10 minutes.


There is a video on YT were some game freaks tried out sneaking in boxes. It turned out to be pretty difficult and needing a lot of ignorance from the real human guards.

*Googles pictures of Dichen Lachman nude in Altered Carbon* AGGGHHH! My eyes! My EYES! The goggles do nothing!!

*Looks at new topic title*
*Looks at Oni-chan*
*sighs and walks into the sunset*

[Darkling]

Chicken hat is an offering in case you are repeatedly discovered in the same mission, leading you to fail. It's not an item the player has as such.

So it's just a booby prize, then - a sort of "I suck at this game so bad and all I got was this lousy hat?" sort of thing?

I've read a lot of similar accounts about Japanese storytelling (especially in manga and light novels). The author will often diverge into tangents and follow other characters, or show the same events from someone else's perspective. On the other hand, there's also the tendency to start introducing new characters when the existing characters and their relationships start to wear thin - I'm looking at you, Sarah McDougal. (I never even got to Keitaro's 'sister' - I had stopped reading long before then.)

I guess sometimes an author comes up with an idea that people like, and it becomes popular, only for the author to realise they have no idea where the story is supposed to go. So they just start 'stalling', for want of a better word.

Of course, there are also cases where the author knows exactly where the story needs to go, but going there would end the series and stop making money for the author, so they start padding things out interminably until no-one cares what's going to happen in the end anymore.

I think when I hid soldiers in trash cans or toilets they do not wake up. If you punch a guy, he'll wake up in about a minute. If you "tranq" them they'll sleep for like 10 minutes.

If we're talking about TPP, yes, I noticed that the player would choke a guard unconscious, then carry him to a very precise spot, then choke another guard and take him to the exact same spot. I saw this happening two or three times - though one time, with a female soldier, the player just threw the guard they were carrying down a hill. That was fun.

*Googles pictures of Dichen Lachman nude in Altered Carbon* AGGGHHH! My eyes! My EYES! The goggles do nothing!!

*Looks at new topic title*
*Looks at Oni-chan*
*sighs and walks into the sunset*

(I changed the title of the topic again to make it clearer, but I did it before reading your comment. And I am picky and sexist about the sort of woman I find attractive. I'll freely admit to that. )

[Jo']

So it's just a booby prize, then - a sort of "I suck at this game so bad and all I got was this lousy hat?" sort of thing?

Yes. It's an item that makes it harder for enemies to spot you. So it lowers difficulty in case you accept the chicken hat. As a plus it makes it obvious in case the gamer video-captures himself playing that way.

I've read a lot of similar accounts about Japanese storytelling (especially in manga and light novels). The author will often diverge into tangents and follow other characters, or show the same events from someone else's perspective.

Ouh, Maruyama Kugane (Overlord, since your like names) did this to the extreme. One of his side characters visits a larger city, she gets into some trouble and suddenly the MC shows up helping her. The plot then goes on for over days with said side character and I think it's even in a following Book, that he turns back time by days (or were it even weeks?) and tells part of the story again from the POV of the MC. I found that very confusing and lacking for a writer who is published for money...

I'm looking at you, Sarah McDougal. (I never even got to Keitaro's 'sister' - I had stopped reading long before then.)

His sister only appears in the three additional extra anime shows "Love Hina Again" after the actual series. I found it always rediculous how Keita was plot-forced to be interested in Naru and Naru only and how in the very last minute she literally gave up, very angrily admitting - or submitting to? - that she likes Keitaro too. Which then, was supposed to be the conclusion and done: End, roll the credits. How romantic. What a splendid and touching display of true love and passionate devotion...

I know "Asians" are a bit different in how they approach relationships (in contrast to a Middle European like me), but those distanced emotions (to the point of openly avoiding or even denying the other) are really quite alienating. I wonder what expectation people have when they ask on Kissanime, if there is any "romance" or "kissing" in a show.

I guess sometimes an author comes up with an idea that people like, and it becomes popular, only for the author to realise they have no idea where the story is supposed to go. So they just start 'stalling', for want of a better word.

We had this discussion about "The World Only Good Knows", where we suspected that there was only an inital idea and then no plan were to go with it.

In Overlord the MC at serveral times mentions that he wants to find out if there are any other players in this world, maybe even his buddies of his Guild. He's esp. worried if there are stronger powers than his own, which could endanger his NPC. But the way he explores the world is just rediculously inefficent, considering the power he has at his disposal.

So there is the general plot laid out and the writer appears to be just not up to the task. There is no need to dragging it out, because he has a setting that in itself alows for an epic adventure and he non-chalantly screws it up. He got a Manga, he even got an anime and it looks like the moment he knew his story was released as an anime his dragging it out stared. It's like he shot himself in the foot. I mean what anime producer can affort to drag out a 10 season (13 episodes each) show in these days?

Of course, there are also cases where the author knows exactly where the story needs to go, but going there would end the series and stop making money for the author, so they start padding things out interminably until no-one cares what's going to happen in the end anymore.

That's "Love Hina", all right.

I changed the title of the topic again to make it clearer, but I did it before reading your comment.

What's "ITT"?

And I am picky and sexist about the sort of woman I find attractive. I'll freely admit to that.

Fair enough. So am I. I just wish I had the power to turn my dream woman into reality.

[Darkling]

Yes. It's an item that makes it harder for enemies to spot you. So it lowers difficulty in case you accept the chicken hat. As a plus it makes it obvious in case the gamer video-captures himself playing that way.

Yes, there's a similar tradition in some Western games where if you use a cheat code, your save games are permanently labelled "CHEAT!", just to remind you that you didn't play the game 'properly'.

His sister only appears in the three additional extra anime shows "Love Hina Again" after the actual series.

I got bored long before the original 24-episode series ended. I just didn't think that Naru was an appealing love interest (I much preferred Mutsumi), but I knew that the 'true ending' of the series would be when Keitaro got together with her. So I lost interest in the anime (and the manga) long before it eventually dragged to its trite (and expected) conclusion.

I know "Asians" are a bit different in how they approach relationships (in contrast to a Middle European like me), but those distanced emotions (to the point of openly avoiding or even denying the other) are really quite alienating.

I actually believe that things are very different (and difficult) in Japan when it comes to relationships with the opposite sex. Men are raised to be good 'salary men', while women are growing increasingly independent, meaning that the traditional "master of the house" and "completely subservient wife" roles no longer hold any validity.

In fact, these days it often seems to be the case that Japanese men aren't pro-active enough to find a romantic partner, whereas Japanese women are more content pursuing their own careers, rather than trying to find a husband, in their twenties, making the Japanese birth rate even more problematic. Westernisation seems to have infiltrated itself into Japanese culture in that regard, and not to its benefit.

What's "ITT"?

'In this topic'.

And I am picky and sexist about the sort of woman I find attractive. I'll freely admit to that.

Fair enough. So am I. I just wish I had the power to turn my dream woman into reality.

If you build it, they will come. ;)

[Jo']

I got bored long before the original 24-episode series ended. I just didn't think that Naru was an appealing love interest (I much preferred Mutsumi)

Agreed! Mutsumi

Men are raised to be good 'salary men', while women are growing increasingly independent, meaning that the traditional "master of the house" and "completely subservient wife" roles no longer hold any validity.

I realised - much to my annoyance - that in quite a number of anime from a certain point on the male MC (a young lad) becomes macho. Often a female side character is far stronger than himself, but he starts all yelling and shouting about how he does NOT want her to fight, how HE wants to "protect" her (despite his obvious inability). He could as well yell: "Drop the sword and get behind the fucking stove, where you belong, bitch." At least this is how it feels and comes across to me. And often enough the before determined girl suddenly gets all blushy... *urgh*

In fact, these days it often seems to be the case that Japanese men aren't pro-active enough to find a romantic partner.

The way the average japanese male is depicted, acting all weak and depressed and timid and hikkikomori and victim, stooped and broken is slightly off-putting. And most certainly a woman who has found the courage to break with traditions, has raised her own self-confidence - facing rather self-loathing persons will hardly be attractive. I don't mind much the birth-rate. It's not like some 7 billion humans are a race about to die out... There are over 45 Million more Japanese than Germans. I bet a lot of their space and supply issues would be less daunting if there'd only be 50 Million Japanese instead of 126.
(but that's just the idealistic dictator's voice inside of me )

If you build it, they will come.

Plural even!!! *yay*

[Darkling]

Agreed! Mutsumi

Or Shinobu, when she's a bit older.

I realised - much to my annoyance - that in quite a number of anime from a certain point on the male MC (a young lad) becomes macho.

I see what you mean, but I think often it's a case of the character initially being weak-willed and indecisive (in order for male audience members to be able to identify with him), but learning to overcome those traits (perhaps to excess) by the end. Keitaro is a hapless ronin who eventually gets the strong-willed girl and is accepted into Tokyo U. Hideki from Chobits starts out as a country bumpkin ronin who starts out naively wondering if every girl he meets is interested in him (his co-worker at the bar, his teacher, his landlady) before realising that he loves Chi and wants to pursue a relationship with her, no matter the difficulties and limitations they may face together.

I personally don't get the appeal of tsunderes, but I guess it's also a cliche that caters to the male audience members' fantasies. "Sure, this girl may act like she wants you to drop dead, but underneath she's really soft and sweet and sooooo in love with you! You want to see her blush, don't you?"

Hmm, putting it that way, a lot of anime and manga do tend to be outlets for the fantasies of ineffectual Japanese males. But for me, those themes and issues are explored so often (over and over and over again) that even I (an ineffectual Asian-Australian male) no longer find them interesting. I think that could be a large part of the reason I'm no longer interested in bishoujo games or anime. They were a fun source of escapism for me, for a while, but I grew up and they didn't?

I don't mind much the birth-rate. It's not like some 7 billion humans are a race about to die out... There are over 45 Million more Japanese than Germans. I bet a lot of their space and supply issues would be less daunting if there'd only be 50 Million Japanese instead of 126.
(but that's just the idealistic dictator's voice inside of me )

The issue is also that in the coming decades there will be a lot more elderly / retired Japanese than working adults, which will cause problems for the Japanese economy and presumably social services. I found this article interesting:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/japa ... sis-2017-4

To stay somewhat on topic, I've played Tomb Raider for a couple of hours and I'm still in the "I don't quite understand the gameplay systems" (ie what I can and can't do), "I'm not good at the game yet" and "my character is weak-ass and the number of skills to unlock on the skill tree is daunting" phase. Also, I'm currently wandering through a dimly lit jungle and being attacked by black dogs that are nearly impossible to see because it's so dark. And all I have is a bow - no melee weapon to defend myself with. So the dogs come and latch onto my arm and (if I'm lucky) I shake them off while getting injured or (if I'm already wounded badly enough) they maul me to death.

I'm sure things will get enjoyable again soon enough, but right now I'm not particularly enjoying the learning curve. Lara's curves are nice, though.